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The following is the transcript of snippets of P. Sainath's insights on democracy. I think there is much to think of here. Many thanks Atul Hirde for making this video and sharing.

I believe that a democratic political culture is essential for any kind of governance, any kind of social contract, for any kind of society to be together, live together, work together, but the thing is, when you say "Do you agree that democracy is the best form?" You have one concept in your mind, which is not going to be easy for you to articulate. I may have another concept of it in my mind. Which may be completely different.

What is democracy?

Now, when we are talking about Western democracy, let it also be clear that there are many kinds of... there's more than one Western concept of democracy, okay?

One can look at Thomas Paine. He had radical ideas of democracy, but the main people who led the US independence and benefited from it, unlike Thomas Paine, were people like Jefferson, Washington... all of them were slave owners.

We speak of the ideals of Jeffersonian democracy. Thomas Jefferson not only wrote beautiful and exquisite poems, he was also pretty harsh on his slaves and he was willing to sell months old children of slaves. He did not release his slaves in his will - as Washington did for some of them - and Mr. Jefferson also had profoundly racist prejudices.

Democracies that you have in the west in the United Kingdom or the US are based on the enslavements of people, whether in Africa or Iraq or all around the world. In that sense there is continuity and consistency in the approach.

All the founding fathers of the United States, many of the ... you have people from the 17th, 18th century, you have people harking back to Rome, harking back to Greece, writing epics on these nations and the early republics and the democracies... these were democracies based on slave ownership.

When European nations went out and enslaved the world, it was very good to remember Rome and Greece. And it is very good in Greece to remember Plato and Aristotle, because these were guys who justified slavery. They saw the slave as property. Adam Smith writes of the slave as if he is a piece of machinery whereas in ancient Greece. Whether it is ancient greece or more modern England. Adam Smith writes of the slave as a piece of machinery - whose parts wear out. And you have to reinvest.

There's a lot of consistency in this view of human beings.

When you are an imperialist power in the 18th, 19th centuries, conquering people around the world, it is pretty good to restore those elements of the Roman, Greco-Roman, other cultures which support your position, because those were slave owning republics and slave owning democracies and slave owning empires and most of those who founded the United States drew their inspiration from that kind of democracy.

It's on view in Iraq, where everyone of you has sent the token number of troops as well, okay? We're seeing that kind of democracy. A democracy again based on enslavement of people.

You were asking me a question, "Why did Gandhi call Western Democracy a diluted form of fascism?"

Do you know something about Gandhi? All but five months of his life, he lived under British Imperialism. He watched the nation that called itself the mother of all Parliaments and he watched them enslave a hundred nations. All of them completely oppressed and held under the British rule. While the British power practiced democracy at home. To some extent. Even that democracy at home was substantially improved by the radical work and writings and ideas of people like Thomas Paine and others.

Please notice, Gandhi did not say democracy is diluted fascism. He said Western democracy is diluted fascism.

Let me give you an idea. I find it apalling, this Greco-Roman stuff, which is.... I have it coming out of my ears, and then we have a French academic passing through Bombay, who sings the praise of Greco-Roman republics and I think where are... you know... here is a guy coming from France - a nation that has produced far more noble ideas on democracy and egalitarianism than Greece and Rome ever did. Here is the nation that gave the world the slogan, "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" - a slogan that Indian freedom fighters took to their graves with them.

Switzerland, oh great. Switzerland. Taught to me in school as the epitome of democracy at every level... when did they give women the right to vote? Some 30 years after India did, because women in India had the right to vote the minute this country was born. I still say it doesn't make India a good democracy in that sense. It makes India a good electoral democracy.

Unlike people of America, people of this country vote, they use their vote, and they use it to change governments and to produce change.

The man who was the main architect of the Constitution of India, Babasaheb Ambedkar, when the constitution was released, when the constitution was launched, in 1950, Ambedkar said, we have built a thriving political democracy, but we have not accompanied it with economic democracy. The tensions of inequality, the tensions of this contradiction will blow us up one day.

Now if you want to believe that the United States and UK and its allies in Europe went into Iraq to promote democracy, if you believe that, then you can believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and the rest of it.

Now if Iraq's national product had been onions, there would have been no war. There are two kinds of things why people went into Iraq. One is of course is the natural resources and the other geo-political stuff. Noam Chomsky put it very well when they have said International relations are also organized pretty much on the lines of the Mafia. If the small shopkeeper refuses to pay, you don't really need his money, but you gotta beat the shit out of him, because otherwise other shopkeepers will get ideas.

I think a lot of people make the distinction between democratic behavior and democratic governance, and the imposition of a particular breed of a violent democracy, on these nations by the United States and its western allies, I think people are intelligent enough to make this difference.

Many Western minds are not intelligent enough it seems to understand that people make that distinction. They might want democracy. They may not want your democracy.

The Australian political scientist, Alex Carry. I think he summarized when talking about the 20th century. He summarized - he said, "There were three great developments in the 20th Century. The rise and growth of democracy, the rise and growth of corporate power and The rise and growth of corporate media - to try and strangle the rise and growth of democracy.

 

Transcript of Globalizing Inequality - a lecture by P. Sainath, sponsored by the Center for Social and Environmental Justice of Washington State University, Vancouver. Video by pdxjustice Media Productions.

Part 1 || Part 2 || Part 3 || Part 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGsk6XafewU

In other words, rate far above the lives of millions of Africans. That is absolutely clear. It is crystal clear from the conclusion about it.

Yet, the game is unraveling. We'll get into some of the numbers of inequality a little while later if you wish, but let's look at some surprising things that are happening.

The guys running the game, know it's unraveling. They're aware that things are not going as per plan. And maybe they... maybe the plan was different in any case, but with one of the fundamental features of our time being the increasing, growing disconnect between mass media on the one hand and mass reality on the other, you don't often get to see these things highlighted.

Let me quote three very, very important people and institutions. "Our planet is not balanced. Too few control too much, and too many have too little to hope for. Too much turmoil, too many wars, too much suffering." Now depending on who you are, that sounds like Subcomandante Marcos of the Zapatistas, or Mother Teresa. It's actually James Wolfensohn of the World Bank speaking. That's James Wolfensohn at the joint World Bank - IMF meeting in Dubai.

You know, now a days the World Bank and IMF are very careful to pick as venues places like Dubai, Riyadh, other places known for freedom of expression to hold their meetings in. So that all you protesters can go there and say what you like. Now this is...

This is Wolfensohn speaking about concentration, inequality, too few own too much. Too few control too much. Look at the language. It is very different from the gung-ho, trickle down, claptrap that you had for fifteen years before that.

Three days after Wolfensohn spoke - this was towards the end of 2003 - a small paragraph appeared in the International Herald Tribune about the IMF. The International Monetary Fund, which if you remember, during the southeast Asian financial crisis together with the United States government, Washington and others, nearly brought down the Malaysian government of Mohammed Mahathir for being recalcitrant and creating a crisis, blah blah blah blah

Three days after Wolfensohn speaks, from the same meeting comes an acknowledgment from the IMF that the IMF has since accepted that Mahathir's capital and controls formula actually worked.

You nearly brought down an elected government, because it didn't conform to your prescriptions and then calmly, five years later you say, you know I was shocked, we got it slightly wrong... we just blew the whole region apart by doing so, but... you know? They're admitting it.

Around the same time, the third member of the trinity spoke. This is the oracle. The Wall Stree Journal. And we'll come to the Wall Street Journal in greater detail in a minute.

A few days after Wolfensohn got it off his chest, the Wall Street Journal came up with this very original line. Well... original for the Wall Street Journal anyway. It wrote. The Wall Street Journal said its true really (?) "Yes, markets are a great way to organize economic activity, but markets need adult supervision."

Gee! If they had figured that out twenty years ago, millions of lives would have been spared.

Now I think this is a strong case that the World Bank and the IMF and the Wall Street Journal are in urgent requirement of adult supervision. All three of them are now hedging on what's going wrong. They know that market fundamentalism has run its course, that things are going very badly wrong.

Throughout the 90s to even suggest that the market was not God was to invite derision, attack, ridicule, of a very abusive nature. Right? The market wasn't good for just democracy. The market IS democracy.

You can't separate these two things. Now, as it begins to unravel, let me give you the later thoughts of the Wall Street Journal.

On the elections in India. This is the same newspaper that argued that markets are democracy, etc etc. Here is the Wall Street Journal. It writes 5 days after the Indian election results, because that's how much time it took to get out of the trauma, "Democracy is perverse."

Democracy is perverse! It is attacking the Indian election results! Democracy is perverse. Although it is natural for the United States to suggest that all countries should embrace democracy, the lesson from India is that Western nations cannot be dogmatic about elections.... except when they are in Iraq.

The lesson from India is that Western nations cannot be dogmatic about elections.

The journal continues "As India's elections will testify" - this isn't on their op-ed or edit page - "As India's elections will testify, democracy is not always supportive of coherent economic policy and prosperity."

You want me to translate that for you, it means that those voters are really dumb and they are very dangerous and let's - you know - corral them. Continuing - verbatim quote "The West should be more hesitant about promoting political competition. For alas, that could destroy the leadership" - unquote - that pursues real economic change.

So don't promote elections and stuff for God's sake, these miserable peasants in India go and change governemnts that are promoting markets

The WSJ continues "The lesson is that if India wants to be an economic power, it has to pay heed to the global voter known as the investor."

If India wants to..you know? Screw your electorate. You want to be a power, you pay attention to the global voter known as the investor. And then it adds as an afterthought because it may not look all that democratic "in addition to your own voters at home."

Gee! Thanks! We can listen to our own people so long as they think the way you want them to.

But surely that's a regression, but oh... let me not put it all at the door of the Wall Street Journal. We have far more enthusiastic people at home, like the editors of our own newspaper - one of whom wrote when the collapse took place in 2004, no government ... just before the election this editor wrote these two pieces in 2004 "No government that the markets see as hostile can survive."

Just before the election he also wrote that "the era of mass elections, mass meetings, door-to-door campaigning and election rallies is over. Elections will now be decided on the basis of what people learn from the media."

As famous last words, those rank along side the Tarzan's "Who greased the grapevine?"

He also made a pronouncement on after the crash "The markets have spoken" you know? He had read the entrails of the market like the ancient wizards who read the entrails of whatever animal that they made miserable.

Now all the other newspapers in the West contributed to the building of this Tiger economy model, this emerging tiger stuff when in fact, inequality was being entrenched at that devastating pace.

Let me give you the example of the New York Times. Mr Keith Bradshaw, renowned investigative journalist for the New York Times, an expert on the automobile industry, which of course qualifies him immediately to comment on Indian agriculture. Is sent to the southern state of Andhra Pradesh to deify the greatest, the most beloved third world leader in the West. Mr Chandrababu Naidu, from my home state of Andhra Pradesh.

If you hit.. if you Google this name tonight, or if you check LexisNexis, you will find that no third world leader ... the only other third world leader who will get you an equal number of hits is probably Saddam Hussein - ok? But for totally different reasons.

Naidu was the darling of the World Bank, the IMF, the WTO, etc. Mr. Bradshaw in analysing also joined the list of famous last words, said that "Mr. Naidu's party is set to retain power." You know? Before they suffered the biggest electoral defeat in the history of that state in decades. "Mr. Naidu's party is set..." In my home state in Andhra Pradesh speaks a language called Telugu. Some 70-80 million people speak this language.

And Mr. Bradshaw wisely commented - he'd studied the problem very closely. He'd visited the place for all of six hours or so - and declared that "Mr. Naidu's party seems set to regain power in the coming elections, because he and his party speak Telugu."

Now this is... you know? The rest of Andhra Pradesh speaks Esperanto. Right?

This is like saying that "Tony Blair and the labor party is set to retain power because they speak English." which of course, there might be a strong case for, because earlier it was cockney. Right? So...

Anyway, all these predictions went awry, and you can see how how angry they are with democracy when it works against them, because the poor there spoke, and they spoke decisively.

Anyway, if you look at how... oh... more than the free market, has anyone seen the new patent laws and seed laws of Iraq? There's a free market for you. A completely imposed free market in perpetuity and in eternity captive to Halliburton and MCI and a number of other multinationals.

Halliburton gets exclusive monopoly rights to import oil into a country with the second largest reserves of that commodity in the world at about two and a half times the price of that commodity in that part of the world. Exclusive rights of exclusive importation.

A friend of mine calculated that it would be cheaper to drive the oil down by limo from Kuwait than to buy it at Halliburton's price.

You should see these patent laws and seed laws. The people of Iraq didn't even know that they needed a Seed Law. It's been written by the Monsantos, the Cargills and these guys. Its been... whoever or whatever other doubts you might have about the law you can see that it's been written by the lawyers of American Corporations. The language, the tone, everything is unmistakable.

A country has been reduced to a colony in perpetuity. It doesn't matter how representative the government of Iraq is tomorrow, it can have no.... The free market precludes Iraqi ownership of any Iraqi asset of significance.

Soon after Saddam fell, a couple of very entrepreneurial young guys started a telephone ... a cell phone network, which was shut down physically by your army and handed over to to MCI which had no previous experience of building networks in such places. That's the free market.

I'm sure the Iraqis will be very grateful. I see them expressing it everyday. The opening up process in many ways now, in many of these countries resembles the opium wars of the 19th century.

But let's look at this growth of inequality worldwide. Inequality has grown faster in the last 15 years than in the preceding 50. Every single report of the United Nations Development Programme's Human Development Report, which has been coming up since 1991 shows you this and shows you that it has intensified with every single successive year.

The income gap between the top 20% of the world's population and the bottom fifth has more than doubled by 1998. The top 20% consumed 80% of all goods and services. The bottom fifth of the world's population are currently living on 1.2% of the world's resources and services - goods and services.

The world's richest 200 people doubled their net worth in 4 years leading to 1998, which means they more than doubled their net worth in 4 years to over 1 trillion dollars and the assets of the top three billionaires are more than the combined gross national product of all least developed countries and a six hundred million people put together.

By 2004, the position had actually worsened. To that point, is what I think the Bank and the Fund were beginning to worry about. You know? That things are not going as planned or maybe they were going as planned, but too well.

Russia. Look at the rest of the world. Russia, once the second superpower in the world was subjected to shock therapy in the 90s and other doctrines of market fundamentalism. The former USSR lost 42% of her gross domestic product. No mean achievement, because no country has lost 42% of its GDP without either a war or a famine. Russia managed that with only the IMF and Jeffery Sachs. Without war or famine.

Every year now. Every year, if you check it out, 400-500 people die in Moscow in the vicinity of hypothermia. Of cold. In the cold of Moscow in winter, while every year, the number of Mercedes Benzs sold in Moscow has soared. The sale of Mercedes Benzs has gone up in every one of those years that more and more people have died of hypothermia.

In fact, so many new boutiques in fashion... fashion boutiques and designer stores have opened in Moscow that when Armani opened his designer store, in Moscow, the international world... [contd in Part 4]

15

I often get messages and tweets from Baloch people sharing information about their plight in Pakistan. I decided that it was time to end my reluctance to write on Balochistan, simply because I'm Indian.

An informal chat with Shahdad Baloch who often sends me information as a part of his efforts to get Balochistan better heard. This is compiled from several interactions, but the quotes are exact and the references links are provided by him.

This interview is from last week, but its publishing was held because of server issues. In other words, its before Osama was killed.

Can you introduce yourself briefly?

A Baloch son of soil turned as a stranger on own homeland. I am Shahdad Baluch, a business student,and a webmaster struggling to highlight the plight of my Baloch nation.

When did you begin activism for Balochistan? Was there a specific point, or was it a gradual thing? How long have you been trying to get attention to the happenings in Balochistan?

Well I started three years back. The main thing is slavery and I feel the pain of my people as I'm one of sufferer in the hands of Pakistani occupiers and there is a media blackout in Balochistan. So I took the initiatative to make the world aware.

What kind of attention do you receive?

So far so little. We are not lucky like the Libyans. There Nato made it a Non Flyzone within a month, while Pakistan is bombarding Balochistan for years but still [Balochistan is] a flyzone.

Why do you think this is happening? Why is there such studied silence over Balochistan? Pakistan can only control Pakistani media but the world media doesn't seem very interested either....?

There is media blackout. There is no entrance for media groups in Balochistan. Recently a BBC journalist said that PAKISTANI forces doesnt allow us in Balochistan. Because entire Balochistan is controlled by forces from all corners,so media groups dont find themselves save,as Pakistani forces killed morethan 10 Baloch journalist in Balochistan. So I think safety concerns for foreign media.,7

Is this deliberate targetting or a part of the overall insecurity plaguing the region? What specific concerns do media personnel face?

They are targeting deliberately Baloch journalist as they are exposing the Pakistani state crimes in balochisatan. Life threats from secret agencies,many injured,some abducted and later killed in military custody

And foreign journalists? Surely some may have tried to enter the region regardless?

Yes foreign journalists willig to work,but i think they are facing hurdles from Pakistani state.We recently saw a piece about Balochisan in Guardian,Pakistan secret dirty war.

But i think thats not enough and in Balochistan only source of information is Balochistan related websites,but all are banned by the State. The second reason is no foreign media coverage is Pakistan,as its an so called ally of West on war on terror,so i personally think they are kind of blackmailed from Pakistan.

So your website cannot be seen in pakistan itself?

People are using proxies and softwares for accesing the websites.

But the average Pakistani has no way to know these things?

No,they are only relying on Pakistan bias media. Recently i saw a report on BBC URDU SERVICE,there was a servey on streets of Lahore and Islamabad,they all were university students,they have being asked to name any city of Balochistan,none of them know any name.so imagine how ignorant they are about Balochistan.

Lahore has a maximum universities and colleges in Pakistan,and their well educated students even dont know the geography of Balochistan. I saw same student of Punjab know alot about the mineral recources of Balochistan,but they dont know the cities name of Balochistan. So one thing is for sure they are only interested in Baloch resources .

What do you think is the root of this conflict? Surely if it were about natural resources, then it would be to Pakistan's advantage to keep Balochistan happy in order to extract them?

The root cause is illegal occupation of Balochistan Balochistan got its independence on 11th aug 1947 But then Jinnah asked our leaders to join Pakistan,but our parliament majority didnt accepeted the offer of Jinnah. but on 27th march 1948 Pakistan forcefully occupied the Balochistan.

So you never really accepted being part of Pakistan is what you are saying? But Balochistan is represented in the government of Pakistan?

That history is written by Pakistani occupiers. Did pakistan ever mention in history that they occupied Balochistan? Baloch has adopeted all means of Struggle for rights of Baloch people. But these parliaments never be fruitful for us.

The genuine government in Balochistan history was NAP in 70's and that was majority but Bhutto dismissed the government and all Baloch leaders were sent into prison. Then they have accused Balochs being funded by the Iraq and launched a military operation along with Iran. Pakistan and Iranian fighter jets jointly bombarded Balochistan,estimately 25,000 Baloch killed and thousands displaced.

Displaced in military operations

And the people are suffering.

See they always used Baloch land for their own interests. They have tested their nukes on 28th May 1998,they didnt inform the locals that they are carrying out experiment. The Raskoh,mountain is completely turned black. Now they are many unnamed diseases,many skin diseases,many children are disable. The livestock is badly damage. After the nuclear test,Pakistani authorities never returned to the locals.

And we are seeing the dangers of nuclear radiation, and how seriously it should be taken with Japan's Fukushima nuclear disaster. So many instances go straight under the carpet! Has there been any inquiry into this in Balochistan - by the government, NGOs, independent doctors.... anyone?

No inquiry.

None?

The locals are loosing the battle of life one by one. Why Pakistan really cares about it? Because we are Baloch, they dont want us, but our land and resources.

Have the baloch tried approaching organizations like WHO? or IAEA?

Yes we have even made several reports about the unnamed diseases,and pictures of affected children but no one taking it seriously. Those pictures,and reports are available on internet.

So world health organization is not interested in this seeming epidemic of strange illnesses?

Pakistan doesnt let the world organisations to help Baloch,as Pakistan is on denial mode

So you are saying Pakistan deliberately blocks medical investigations or assistance?

Yes tells the world there is no such problem in Balochistan ,and Pakistan is capable handling such minor issues. Even during the Floods in Balochistan,we all Baloch demanded for international aid,but Pakistan said no we can help them by their own,but still Baloch are living a miserable life without any shelter.

The international aid didn't happen in Balochistan?

NO,they have been deposited in state bank of Pakistan.

And the international organizations working on the ground? Bringing aid and supplies? Did that reach balochistan?

They have only reached to the border areas of Sindh

So who assisted the Baloch people?

The local Baloch NGO's helped the Baloch flood victims by own resources of Baloch nation. But still they need support. And there is some other issues of Baloch displaced people after military operations and bombardment. There are about 450,000 Baloch are displaced after the Pakistan military offensives in Kohlu,dera bugti, region of Balochistan,they are living in critical conditions without any international support. The international should not be handed over to Pakistani government,we wont get anything from them,should deal with us.

When Zardari came into power, he apologized to Balochistan. It seemed like the beginnings of change. How much did it help on the ground?

Yes this is not the first that Pakistani rulers apologising with Baloch nation. This government is brutall then the previous others. They have abducted thousands of Baloch,and now they are killing Baloch youths in custody and throwing their bodies in deserts and mountains more than 150 Baloch youths killed in military torture cells in last 10 months

Do you think the government has the power to influence happenings in Balochistan? Or are the intelligence agencies acting ontheir own?

Both are colloborating together,bcoz Zardari claims its a democratic government,and during the such a so called democractic goverment its happening to us. The judiciary is actually just playing with time.the most of Baloch youths were killed in military custody ,there petition was filed, but soon after their killings,the chapters are closing one by one. If judiciary is sincere then why not a investigation to those custodial killings?

Who will investigate? Who do you think can be tasked with such an investigation, and you think will carry it out responsibly? Who are you willing to trust?

Only UN and foreign fact finding mission. We no more trust on Pakistani judiciary bcoz we have a witness for each abduction case,that our Baloch youths were abduced in broad day light in public places.

You mean an international investigation into the national military apparatus?

Yes if it can be happen in Srilanka so why not in Balochistan??

Coming to the other side of things, the BLA is considered terrorists by Pakistan. There have been attacks on government installations, soldiers, civilians, foreign nationals killed; gas pipelines spend more time in maintenance than operation. Doesn't it give some legitimacy to Pakistani "counter-operations"? The Punjabis threatened and killed, the Chinese?

Let me clear it first BLA never attacked the civilians Baloch Liberation Army is a defender of Balochistan and fighting against the Pakistani occupiers,for us Pakistan army is terrorist army. The Baloch resources are belongs to Baloch people.either it be Gas,or Gwadar port. The punjabis are killed by the Pakistani intelligence agencies just to defame the Baloch freedom struggle

But there are Baloch blogs warning Punjabis to leave? What makes you say that they were killed by intelligence people and not Baloch fighters?

Whenever Baloch fighter kill anyone take the responsibility of it,and so far killed by Baloch freedom fighters were spys of Pakistani state.

Teachers, women?

If you read the news more Baloch spys has been killed than punjabis

Sure. I am only questioning what you said - that BLAs don't kill civilians - the news seems to contradict that

Spys cant be count in civilians according to my understanding.

How widespread is the Baloch struggle?

Baloch struggle is spreaded to the all corners of Balochistan.

And its density? What percentage of the population supports it? Say out of 100 people, how many support the BLA?

95

!

Anyway, coming to the questions.... The Pakistani government claims that your struggle is supported by an alphabet soup of agencies CIA and RAW are the names that come up the most. How true is that? Is there any information, support, arms or anything coming from that direction?

If we being supported by the foreign powers,the ground sitution was totally different

Not full support, perhaps not arms or money or training, but other ways? *any* support at all? On the other hand, the Balochs are requesting assistance from many countries and particularly US and India - what kind of response has that got?

Personally i dont think so.There is no foreign support for Balochistan.you can imagine it by the silence of the India and US. media. Yes Baloch are asking for your morale support.

But so far no response. I mean Indian and US or any other country to morally support our freedom cause. But so far no positive response.

There have been articles about Balochistan's secular influence in a region of extremist violence and particularly articles targetted at the US and to some extent India about how this is to their advantage Both countries have solid intelligence channels and think tanks particularly think tanks focused on the increasing problem Pakistan is becoming So what do you think stops them from any intervention in Balochistan?

Yes we Baloch are secular people.The majority of Baloch are Muslims,we have hindus, and other minorities but from thousand of years we are living in peace and love,infact we are securing them from the ISI extremist elements. The Western countries and India know that Baloch are secular people,but because of Taliban war, US is not supporting us as Pakistan is a so called ally of US.

But West should know that,if you guys want peace,and stability in the region you must support Baloch freedom cause.

And India? Why is India silent?

I think its Kashmir which not allow Indians to speak up.

What do you think of the Kashmir struggle? Is it similar to what Balochistan goes through? Will supporting Balochistan mean India has double standards?

Well i think Kashmiris can better define their struggle. but i know one thing that ISI is using kashmir for own interest. Our struggle is different than Kashmiris.they are fighting on religious bases while we are on national basis.

Do you think India *can support you without undermining its stand on Kashmir?

We see on PTV,every day Pakistan give an hour coverage on Kashmir,at least Indians can do the same for us. Because India said to be a biggest democracy of the world.

 

What does Pakistan need to do IMMEDIATELY?

Pakistan should immediately pull back all troops from Balochistan and accept the only demand of Baloch nation,that is Independence of Balochistan.

There have been Pakistani journalists, particularly from progressive newspapers who are bringing attention to Balochistan and the wrongs happenign there how much is that helping? How can such journalists help?

I dont think those locals journalists are about bring any change,as Pakistan recently rejected the Amnesty International report about the HR violations in Balochistan,then Pakistan rejected the HR violations report of US state department.So i dont think Pakistan will listen to those little champs

There is a nuclear waste dump coming up at 10km from some Baloch city Khuzdaz, which is obviously risky business. What is the scene around that? What about the nuclear safety bodies? Parvez Hoodoboy has been raising questions of safety for a while now. Is there a possibility to engage experts to talk about this?

Atomic Blast affected the region of Kharan, Diseases are spreading

Nuclear testing in Balochistan: a local physician's testimony

Nobody knows the exact extent of radiation among the inhabitants in the Chagai region. The government has banned access to the area and it is impossible to carry out any study on the local population. In any case, physicians like myself who have treated patients from the region have come across large numbers of cases of skin cancer and eye cancer in particular. The radiation probably reached the underground water reservoirs. People rely on those as we hardly get any rain here. A patient from Dalbandin who had visited Raspoh told me that the black granite had acquired a yellowish color, the same as the water. We need someone to take a water sample and analyze it abroad. No laboratory in Pakistan dares to do so for fear of reprisals. I myself do not dare to give my real name because, quite possibly, the ISI (Pakistani intelligence) would kill me by the time this interview was published.

Even if Pakistan or the world are not willing to look at freedom for Balochistan, is there a possibility for Balochistan to be restored to a peaceful part of the country by addressing wrongs? As an autonomous region, etc

This is war of our national existence,our identity,our language,our culture,our history,we will keep struggling to the any length.We can not betray to our thousands of Baloch martyrs,who sacrificied their precious lives for the liberation of Balochistan,we can not betray our thousands of Baloch who are kept in Pakistan military torture cells.We dont want any little shares out of our own resources,we are the owner of this land not the beggars.

We will continue our struggle untill the independence of Balochistan.

How can the world help?

They can help us in several ways if they are really care about human lives in Balochistan .

World should immediately take the notice of Pakistani state crimes in Balochistan.

Pakistan is not abding the International War laws.There should be sactions on Pakistan.As we all saw in Libya the way the west react within one months Libya declared as a Non-Fly Zone,while civilians in Balochistan still a soft targets of Pakistani fighter jets. The Pakistani state should be dragged into International Criminal Court and immediately delcare Balochistan as a occupied territority and a war zone. The international print and electronic media should play their role to focus the ongoing Pakistani crimes in Balochistan.

The all peace loving,democratic countries should morally support our cause,as we are the only secular people in the region.They should start a direct diplomatic dialouges with Baloch freedom leaders.

Thanks for your time, dost!

Thank you too see ya

As I read the Wikileaks and newspapers on Kashmir and a hundred other places, one big thing stands out.

Where the human rights suffer, the wars are exercises in frustration. An Army hurting civilians is an Army actively creating enemies and making its own job harder. It seems tempting to ignore abuses. Who would know unless we told them that x number of civilians died? Why demoralize soldiers by punishing them?

Yet, we see over and over. Other civilians know. And they take opportunities to strike back. They may appreciate the purpose of the Army, but it becomes less important than finding justice. If they fail, eventually, the purpose becomes undesirable, and a thirst for unending 'justice' builds up.

In Kashmir, the Indian Army is doing a magnificent job of maintaining security. For all that it is the most militarized zone in the world, it is an enduring operation, one that has actually caused less casualties for comparable scope than anywhere else in the world. Yet, what is it that the people remember? What is it that drives the Kashmiris to fall victim to Pakistan sponsored elements trying to destabilize the region? Listen to the protests. Their people got killed, and the perpetrators got away with it. They don't believe that India has their safety in mind.

If we read the Wikileaks, we see the Pakistani Army doing similar things in Swat and Balochistan. Civilians killed feeds the Taliban, soldiers killed feeds revenge killings. Unending conflict that feeds itself.

Earlier Wikileaks describe similar issues in Afghanistan and Iraq. Human history is filled with stories like this, with one common factor. It is overwhelmingly difficult to violate human rights and win.

I think it is high time human rights violations were ruthlessly proscecuted, because failing to do that will only explode war expenses on a purely un-emotional level and increase unnecessarily all the grief and devastation of war for people who were not the real targets to begin with.