A discussion on voting

A discussion about voting and its role in transforming the political climate of India.
What is this voting people talk about? 40% population voting carefully will bring same results as 80%. The question is who to vote for.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut nope it wont – out of 40% ppl voting – v know who r voting
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
NOT voting is also a political statement. A statement that I don’t trust any of the options.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
we are too given to pat solutions we like the sound of. Very little analysis of where the problem really lies.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
.@sureshnakhua it is a fantasy that the people not voting would have voted how you like. No real proof.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut if u see voting patterns – and analyse data – u wud see that we middle class enjoy our holiday on voting day
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua so that is their political statement. They don’t see anyone worth wasting their holiday to vote for.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua never helps to deny reality for an interpretation.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut its not a political statement – its cynicism – dammit v hold arm in arm and candle marches after 26/11 and then vote 40%
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut do u justify that ?
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua nothing to justify. free country.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut agree its a free country – thts why voting shud be compulsory and not as a right
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut didnt get u
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua free and compulsory are opposite in meaning. Doesn’t make sense to say voting shuld be compulsory because it is a free country
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut being a free country – isnt it compulsory to take ur birth certificates (for admsn),driving licences (for driving),passports (trvlg)
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut simple if u want govt benefits / contracts / facilities – u need to vote – EVM’s can be made to generate receipts
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua I am willing to attend an election and mark present. If I must exert choice, I must have freedom to not exert it.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua I still don’t see a relation between voting and becoming ‘deserving’ of all those facilities you mentioned. @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut You must also have the freedom to not go and mark "present". @sureshnakhua
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua If I want government benefits, all I need to be is a citizen. The rest is political brainwash.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua Why, so? @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua then let us stop pretending to be a democracy.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@KetPan already sec 149 exists for that but hs never been publicised @Vidyut
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua No, I’m not taking the Constitution as sacrosanct. What’s the rationale behind voting being mandatory/obligatory? @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@KetPan u need a licence to drive. u need a PAN card to get contracts. tell me if i m wrong @Vidyut
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua Yes, you need them. Though, am not sure of reason for there to be PAN card to get contracts. @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut so wht do we mean by democracy? taking out candle march after every attack ?
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua You don’t need a licence to ride a bus! only to drive. why should non politicians be forced to vote? @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua I don’t see how voting would be any more effective than candle light marches! 😀 @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@KetPan agree COnstitution is not sacrosanct. Thts y this amendment is needed. and yes u wud need PAN for everything @Vidyut
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua you’re being absurd. I have no time for assumptions. where do candlelight marches come from?
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut if v dont vote we dont hv any effing right to criticise the politicians @Vidyut
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua you don’t need PAN for everything. If you are not paying taxes, you don’t need PAN @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@KetPan @sureshnakhua @Vidyut I advice book "Predictably Irrational" a book on behavioural economics you will see merit in mandatory voting
AnilAarush
July 29, 2011
@AnilAarush Surely, you can summarize the thrust point in a few tweets? Thanks! @sureshnakhua @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut candle marches come from outrage after 26/11 and a mere 40% voting in General elexn @KetPan
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@KetPan @sureshnakhua @Vidyut As long as there is none of these options I guess it’s as close to free thinking as a mandatory duty can get.
AnilAarush
July 29, 2011
RT @sureshnakhua: @Vidyut candle marches come from outrage after 26/11 and a mere 40% voting in General elexn @KetPan
eswarsrinivas
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua Yes but what you state is based on the premise that voting is a ‘solution’ to terrorist attacks, with which I disagree @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua I am a believer in democracy. I fucking HATE candlelight marches. I find them dishonest. Don’t assume. @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@AnilAarush But why make it mandatory duty in the first place? @sureshnakhua @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut @KetPan the ideal situation would be mandatory voting with none of the above / present but not voted option @AnilAarush
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
RT @sureshnakhua: @Vidyut @KetPan the ideal situation would be mandatory voting with none of the above / present but not voted option @AnilAarush
AnilAarush
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua But how’s that ‘ideal’ and how is that a ‘solution’? 🙂 @Vidyut @AnilAarush
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua opening bank account. Accepting payments in that bank account, fixed deposits, depositing money in accounts under 50k @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@KetPan no no voting is not a soln to terrorism – it is a long term soln to get better politicos @Vidyut @AnilAarush
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua Are we of the belief that the 40% who vote, do so for exactly the politician who’d *support* terrorists? @Vidyut @AnilAarush
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@KetPan @sureshnakhua @Vidyut Human mind is wired to act on deadlines that too if it comes with penalty otherwise it just dithers aimlessly
AnilAarush
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua By what exact *mechanism* will higher voter turn out ensure better politicians? @Vidyut @AnilAarush
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut ok agreed u r believer of democracy – can u tell how mandatory voting will hurt democracy ?
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua @KetPan @Vidyut Precisely these things are not fix all switches, effects will be visible only in course of time
AnilAarush
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua you cannot get better politicos with more/better voting if all the options are not good. @KetPan @AnilAarush
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@KetPan whts wrong with it – ur comments @Vidyut @AnilAarush
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@KetPan @sureshnakhua @Vidyut I won;t be able to do justice to the book in few tweets, it anyway is easy mellifluous read download and read
AnilAarush
July 29, 2011
@KetPan voting is of course not the solution but a way to choose better solution makers @sureshnakhua @Vidyut
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua I never said there’s anything "wrong" with voting. Am asking how exactly is it a virtue? @Vidyut @AnilAarush
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua by undermining the free will of the people. By exposing people to pressures and brainwashing to vote for some person.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut opening bank a/c (other than no frill acc) needs PAN, anything abv 49999 need PAn – be realistic @KetPan
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@KetPan its not tht way bro ….. suppose 40% vote – and the winner gets 60% votes – so effectively he wins on 25% VOTE @Vidyut @AnilAarush
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua by magnifying competition among political polarities and wasting further national resources in pissing contests.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@KetPan they would be more accountable – middle class constitutes a huge percentage @Vidyut @AnilAarush @jemin_p
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua heard of form 16A? @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut @KetPan @AnilAarush @jemin_p thts y i told – option of none of abv – and if more than 50% vote for NO… (cont) http://deck.ly/~PhPv1
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@KetPan it wud make politicos more accountable @AnilAarush @jemin_p @Vidyut
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua Would just add to the election expenses in my opinion. @Vidyut @AnilAarush @jemin_p
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut haha thts not called competition among political polarities – thts democracy which u said u respect
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua I hope you are aware that most of the population has no frills accounts, and rarely deposits above 50K? @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua Also, I don’t think politicians prioritize getting re-elected over recovering election expenses @Vidyut @AnilAarush @jemin_p
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua what is more, you can get around the 50K limit simply by splitting the deposit slips. @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
.@sureshnakhua democracy is the rule of the people through representatives. Pissing contests are the quality of the representatives.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut i hv definitely heard about form 16. i was talking specifically abt middle class @ketpan @AnilAarush @jemin_p
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@KetPan thts a misconception sir – othrwise Shared Powar wudnt hv developed Baramati @Vidyut @AnilAarush @jemin_p
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut u mean representatives elected by 25% of popular vote ?
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua that is the quality of options, not quantity of votes that is dividing the percentage.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua but, FWIW, yes.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut if u r not happy with options – take a dip urself –
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua I would be another bad choice… I am a thinker. But still, I may once my son is older.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut sure. frankly think tht if u hv to clean filth from gutter, good ppl will hvae to enter gutter @jemin_p @KetPan @AnilAarush
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua administrating takes a heck of management thinking, which is not my forte. But I may develop those skills for my country.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua It is not a gutter. Only that too many pigs are camped there. It is a beautiful country. @jemin_p @KetPan @AnilAarush
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut agree country is great ………. i was referring to general political atmosphere @jemin_p @KetPan @AnilAarush
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua As Indian voter, I have full RIGHT to demand clean politics even by being out side the system @Vidyut @KetPan @AnilAarush
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut guess – gutter = politics, all the mre cuz of politician in it, bt i still wuld say politics is not dirty tht much too @sureshnakhua
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p I think everyone wants that. The question is who will bell the cat. @sureshnakhua @KetPan @AnilAarush
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p y wud they listen to u if u dont vote ? @Vidyut @AnilAarush @KetPan
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua it is their JOB to listen to citizens – not conditional blackmail for votes. @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua read – wat i said Indian VOTER – also maalik u forgot my fav subject is high voting 😛 @Vidyut @AnilAarush @KetPan
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut u r mumbaite rite? just tell me how many times did corporator of ur area came to listen to ur grievanc… (cont) http://deck.ly/~FPJx7
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut v by constant vigilance – high voting -persuading right candidate in the process (long one though) @AnilAarush @KetPan @sureshnakhua
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p i was just making a point @Vidyut @AnilAarush @KetPan
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua What is Baramati’s voter turnout? Is it significantly greater than that of Mumbai? @Vidyut @AnilAarush @jemin_p
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut My 2009 blog – http://bit.ly/p3WPeG Why should v vote – tries to ans – @Vidyut @AnilAarush @KetPan @sureshnakhua
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut and how did they get that job? By the voting, na? @sureshnakhua @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p "high voting" is the red herring. If you have a good candidate, 100 voters will show a trend. @AnilAarush @KetPan @sureshnakhua
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua Let’s assume Keshu Patel was ineffective & NaMo is effective. What was voter turnout difference? @Vidyut @AnilAarush @jemin_p
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut agreed – bt end of the day every thing boild down to target audience n prospective beneficiary @AnilAarush @KetPan @sureshnakhua
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua In fact perhaps NaMo was sort of appointed as CM; was not CM-candidate to begin with. @Vidyut @AnilAarush @jemin_p
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut exactly thts y v need to vote . ask any LIGs – the same corporator wud hv gone thr hundreds of time… (cont) http://deck.ly/~lMaT0
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb that is a simplistic jump to conclusion. Realistic is there weren’t better options. @sureshnakhua @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut my theory – min 3 election of constant high voting will churn out unwanted particles out – not befor tht
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua They wouldn’t listen to you even if you vote, if their listening lessens their ‘profits’ 🙂 @jemin_p @Vidyut @AnilAarush
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut if candidate was good – thn 100 voters will show trend ? thn how did meera sanyal lost in Mumbai @KetPan @AnilAarush @jemin_p
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p what is the data you used to arrive at that hypothesis? Any precedents, existing trends…?
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@KetPan Guj voting % is around 60% and in times of Keshubhai was hovering around 15% @Vidyut @jemin_p @AnilAarush
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua Who’s Meera Sanyal? 😀 @Vidyut @AnilAarush @jemin_p
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut is not voting solution then? Voting in huge no. has given more results than not voting @sureshnakhua @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb I am not saying don’t vote. I am saying, don’t make it mandatory – difference. @sureshnakhua @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@KetPan did i say 15% – thn its typo – during keshubhai’s time it was hovering around 45% @Vidyut @jemin_p @AnilAarush
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut @KetPan also abstaining from voting- is also a pseudo voting one does for elected member is disguise – no decision is also a decison
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua Okay, 45% sounds believable. 🙂 @Vidyut @jemin_p @AnilAarush
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut is mandatory with none of the above option okay? @sureshnakhua @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
RT @jemin_p: @Vidyut @KetPan also abstaining from voting- is also a pseudo voting one does for elected member is disguise – no decision is also a decison
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb so that needs studied for what factors made more people vote, and what got results. @sureshnakhua @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p Which is not a bad thing unless and until one’s sure that the other person not getting voted is *actually better*. @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p absolutely correct. and people should have the freedom to do it. @sureshnakhua @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p Why do we have to presume that the candidate who does *not* win would’ve been more effective and cleaner? @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb makes little sense – for voting is to select a option, if i m not wrong @sureshnakhua @vidyut @AnilAarush @KetPan
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
+100 RT @KetPan: @jemin_p Why do we have to presume that the candidate who does *not* win would’ve been more effective and cleaner? @Vidyut
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@KetPan i never say tht – infact i say he will be corrupt too – n hence the theory of 3 election cycle in the article @Vidyut
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p How and why will things change in three (or more) election cycles? @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
RT @PunditComment: Could someone please check what happened between April and now and who met with Suhel Seth? Highly amusing performance on @thenewshour
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
RT @KetPan: @jemin_p How and why will things change in three (or more) election cycles? @Vidyut
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut do ppl compare the candidates of their constituency fr election n get convinced that none of them is good b4 deciding not to vote?
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p you are speaking of 15 years where 5 are reasonably sure to fail. Big investment. On what basis? @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb I don’t know. I am going by the fact that none inspired support.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@KetPan @Vidyut lets take a scenario of one hypothetical constituency, where voting percentage is very (cont) http://tl.gd/c1i96l
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p I’ve read your entire blog post and commented there as well. 🙂 @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut send u the particular abstract of the theory @ketpan
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@KetPan didnt recv ur comment 🙁 – bt my point lies thr – nd i have not gvn benefit of doubt to loose to b clean, its only vigilance @vidyut
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut ok. Now that you dont vote, do you check personal abilities of all the candidates b4 convincing urself that none of them is good?
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb That is a good question, I must say. 🙂 @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut no shortcuts mam, time may increase even, bt cleaner politics wont b immediate @ketpan @sureshnakhua @AnilAarush @dibyabttb
jemin_p
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb I would say this is a better point of intervention than voting. Can information about candidates be made more easily available?
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut of course. Candidates ll give info if voters want to seek more info about their candidates/leaders.
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb that is not what I am saying. On asked, everyone will give. But to increase informed voting, can it be organized?
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut @jemin_p @KetPan @AnilAarush sorry guys lappy conked off – hd to search for charger
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut when a candidate asks you for your vote, seek his info from him. Ask his vision, plans and ideas.
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb mandatory voting will not necessarily increase informed votes or accountability. People can vote for anyone, from compulsion
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut @dibyabttb mandatory voting wud definitely increase accountability @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb again, that is an individual’s initiative. Not everyone will do it. How about organized interviews covered by cable channels?
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@sureshnakhua lol. You have high faith in humans. @dibyabttb @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut i do hv faith in hindusthan to be precise @dibyabttb @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut i already said – its a long term solution – not like some noodle – 2 min mein ban jaayega @dibyabttb @jemin_p @AnilAarush @KetPan
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@jemin_p http://bit.ly/r6oxgR has some non-force ideas for better accountability @sureshnakhua @dibyabttb @AnilAarush @KetPan
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut But info giver ll take interest when the info seeker takes interest. Interaction w/ other voters is 1 way to make informed decision
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb It won’t work. Psychology. Trust me 😛 The one who wants votes must tempt the one giving them. That is the natural way.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb to some extent, they do – liquor, saris, etc. But that is not what the middle class wants. They want inspiration.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut used to be public meetings where all candidates used to come and speak. In the past. That stopped when ppl stopped taking int
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb so cover them and beam them into homes. Cable TV. Hold competitions for best questions to ask candidates. Civil society.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb Making an automatic connection between pre-election talk and keeping those words is not wise. @Vidyut
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb how many of us – i again mean middle class do interact with our elected represnetatives @Vidyut @jemin_p @KetPan
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut but there is not the only one who wants your vote, no?
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb exactly. Let them work for it. You spoon feed votes, how the fuck will they run the country if they can’t get their own votes?
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut sure. Who will do that? The People.
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb did you read article?
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
RT @_R_Srikanth: @KetPan if we view voting as feedback on governance (as it be ideally), an uninformed vote is liable to slew results worse than no vote.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
Exactly http://j.mp/qOFe4y by @_R_Srikanth
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut on mobile. Will read tomorrow for sure. Btw nice talking. Have to leave now. Good night
dibyabttb
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb yes. Local bodies, amateur journalists, local wedding video walas Cable TV operators should provide this as service.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@dibyabttb @sureshnakhua @jemin_p @KetPan Good night! Thank you everyone! This was a very interesting discussion.
Vidyut
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut Sorry, but didn’t really raise any new issues for me. 🙂 @dibyabttb @sureshnakhua @jemin_p
KetPan
July 29, 2011
@Vidyut read the blog – well written but felt sort of cynicism hidden in the blog – didnt get anything new o… (cont) http://deck.ly/~P7tdP
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011
Thx everyone @Vidyut @KetPan @AnilAarush @jemin_p @dibyabttb for a nice discussion Good nite tk care – and dammit its weekend – so enjoy
sureshnakhua
July 29, 2011

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Vidyut
Vidyut is a blogger on issues of National interest. Staunch advocate of rights, learning and freedoms. @Vidyut

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